Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Webslapping the Ignorant

I swore to myself that I wasn't going to write about this.

That it wasn't worth it.

That perhaps I was going to be the better person and just ignore it.

Well.........I don't really think so. Not anymore.

Now, as some of you are well aware, I had posted on Monday about my friend M and the saga that continues about her (the post is directly below this one). And, as is my usual way, wrote candidly about how she (and other women who never went through infertility) didn't get it when it came to what I'm going through. Which has been a common theme lately with her (and I've blogged about before). And, I received a comment (the first comment, actually) from a woman named L, who posted the following:


Babies are like buses when you dont expect them they suddenly come along.

Being around babies wont jinx you but being overly desperate to have one will. Relax and let it happen.If its meant to, it will.

I don't really think I need to elaborate on this, right? You can probably see where this is going.

So, I (very tactfully, I thought) crafted a reply to her that I felt was not mean or nasty (although I could have easily been, but I refrained from doing so-what's the point?), posted it on both her blog and in my comments, and left it at that.

Of course, it's never that simple, is it?

I'm sure, if you click the link to her blog, you'll see her "reply" to Monday's comment and her post from today. Now, as I said, I was going to leave it alone, because it's really not worth it. But, hell hath no fury than a woman on Lupron, and I'm not about to let someone get me down. I'm from New Jersey, dammit-land of "The Sopranos"-and you don't fuck with an Italian-American Jersey Girl. Ever.

*Sigh* Now I've got to open a big 'ol can of Whoop-Ass on her and webslap her. And it's not going to be pretty. She asked for it, however.

So, L-get a clue. Really. I tried to be nice about it. I tried to be tactful. Hell, I've even tried to be helpful by guiding you to resources that would help you understand infertility. Here was your response to that (on your blog):

Dear S

I am sorry if you think I was "blase" and offended
you.I was only trying to be realistically supportive rather than
blandly supportive. I was told I couldn't have children and was lucky
enough to fall pregnant and have two children by my partner by
"mistake".Thsi only happened when I finally "relaxed" and actually ate

But I do understand, my mum went 10 years before
falling with me and my friend is infertile due to v.bad P.O.S. Another
friend just finally fell pregnant after 3 rounds of IVF and she is
expecting twins.

I was not being narrow minded I was just trying
to be realistic. It isn't pleasant to feel (as a mother) that women who
are (not yet) mothers look down on us as annoying and "gooey" over

I hope very much you get the children you desperately
want.They will just be glad you are their mother and not be bothered
that they were not "naturally" conceived.

First of all, never once did I say you were "blase". I did say that your comments were ignorant, but it perplexes me as to why you keep quotating the word "blase". But, I won't get hooked up on semantics right now. Let's get down to the nitty-gritty, shall we?

I think that it's great that you were able to conceive and give birth to two children ("by mistake") even though you were told otherwise, and only after you "relaxed and actually ate properly". Really. I'm glad that it "worked" for you. And, did you go to an infertility specialist to find that treatment? Did you go through ANY infertility testing at all for a medical professional with a subspeciality in reproductive endocrinology to diagnose you as infertile? Or was it just something a general GYN might have mentioned in passing, during an exam?

And, how can you "understand" just because it took your mother 10 years to have you? Do you, perhaps in some pre-conception cognitive moment, happen to psychically connect to your mother and happen to remember her experience? You mention that you have two friends who have experienced infertility-did you make the same type of insensitive comments to them? If you did (which for some reason, I wouldn't doubt), then you are a truly rude and ignorant person, hands down.

Being "realistic" isn't a reason to make stereotypical, opinionated and unsubstantiated comments to people you obviously cannot relate to. Your comments were rude and uncalled for, not "realistic". Believe me, I've had enough realism to last me a lifetime. I don't need someone who has NO idea what I've been through (although you claim you do; however I've never had a woman who is infertile and now has children say that to me, which makes me doubt your claim). Your comments, to an infertile, are just as offending as calling a gay man a "fag" or someone who is Jewish a "kike". Perhaps you think that I'm overreacting, but I guarantee that if you took a poll about whether or not your initial comments could be viewed as offensive, you'd see how many people would agree.

Perhaps, if you actually READ my posts (instead of skimming through them to get a general idea and to search things you perceive as unpleasant), you would see that Monday's post follows a long issue I have with a friend of mine, who, while not as obviously crass as yourself, doesn't get it, even though she has witnessed my whole journey. A person who seems like Mahatma Gandhi compared to you, might I add.

I am sorry that you feel that I was attacking women with children; however, I don't know how your quote "It isn't pleasant to feel (as a mother) that women who
are (not yet) mothers look down on us as annoying and "gooey" over
came out of my post. I never said that mothers were "annoying" or "gooey" over children. I don't "look down" on mothers-that's absurd. I did say that I find it difficult when mothers who have NO CLUE OR EMPATHY expect you to gaggle over their children, knowing that you've just finished your umpteenth IVF cycle and have had another cancellation/failure/miscarriage, YET THINK THAT YOU SHOULD JUST SHAKE IT OFF AND MOVE ON. That it's so easy, if you just "relaxed" and didn't think about it. And, for the record, I don't dislike children, not in the least. If I did, why would I be going through this, and why would I have decided to leave my cushy corporate job to educate young children? I do, however, dislike people who are self-absorbed and make everything about themselves, which you obviously do.

Tell me, have you gone through IVF? Given yourself needles in your abdomen up to four times a day, fill yourself with drugs that fuck with your body, and then have to go and get blood drawn and ultrasounds daily? Go through incredibly painful surgical procedures to retrieve eggs, and not be able to take ANYTHING, except for OTC Tylenol? Ever gain 20 pounds of fluid in three days, where it's pressing against your lungs and impeding your breathing, and you can't walk or sit up straight or even lie down without being strangled by the fluid, and then have to have a needle put in your abdomen to drain the fluid out, or else your kidneys will shut down and you could die? Ever miscarried? Go through the pain, physical and emotional, knowing your body is rejecting the one thing you want most? Waiting for days for your body to expell a child, and wondering when it will be, would it hurt, what will I see when it happens? Ever watch your husband cry with joy when you tell him he's going to be a father, then see him weep when he finds out that the baby died?

I doubt it, considering your comments. You wouldn't have made them if you went through it.

I'm one of the lucky ones, when it comes to infertility. There are those of us who have gone through so much more pain-late-term losses where they had to give birth to babies that were already dead, genetic issues, recurrent miscarriages with no idea why. I've had a walk in the park, comparatively speaking. But, that doesn't make my journey any less significant, which any of them would tell you.

And, why would I think that my children would be "bothered" as to how they are conceived? You're making no sense, unless I assume that you're responding about how I said that, unfortunately, we won't have any cutesy stories about getting knocked up the old-fashioned way. I wouldn't even "bother" a child as to how they were made. If they were older and they asked, I would explain it to them, saying that it was even more special, because they were truly wanted and that we did everything humanly possible to get them there, and that makes them a special blessing.

You have no right to get defensive because I was offended by your "phrasing". Perhaps you need to need to figure out exactly what you want to write before you get diarrhea of the mouth. Perhaps you need to be fully educated about what you're commenting about. I'd never dream saying "well, just don't make yourself throw up" or "just eat" to you, since you say you have an eating disorder, because that's a rude and ignorant comment, not a "realistic" one. A good example of a "realistic" comment might be "sorry you're having a hard time-I hope you can work through it". Oh, yeah, it's also empathetic. Just another hint, there.

Don't get pissy because you weren't understood, or that I didn't agree with you. It's your own fault. Don't think you can troll my blog, give me lame assvice, and not expect retribution. Because, as you can see, you're not the only one that reads my blog. And I can't be responsible for what happens after that. This is a public domain-you have the right to make your comments, just as I have a right to show you that what you said was shitty and uncalled for. And you have no right to be pissed off for that-it's your own damn fault.

And yes, I said "trolled". Because that's what you are-a Troll. Going from blog to blog and leaving your assvice across the blogosphere. Because I'm not the only one you did this to-you trolled another person's blog and blasted a commenter for something YOU didn't agree with . Oh, poor us-we disagreed with your concept of how the world should be. So sorry, thought I was allowed to, considering it IS my blog. And I have just as much of a right to defend what I've written, considering that it's MY reality and what I go through every day.

I'm not denying or confirming that you've been through hard times and they're a part of your "tapestry", but, as far as I'm concerned, infertility ain't one of them, sister. Maybe if you went into detail as to those horrific things that happened, I might not be so "aggressively pissed off". Perhaps you need to fix what's wrong with YOUR life (a man who claims that he "doesn't love you", that you have two children with? Being so "bored" while on maternity leave that you're a shopaholic and making your partner pay double the mortgage?) before you start feeling the need to fix what's lacking in mine. I'd rather pay a professional $150 an hour to do that than have you do it-at least a therapist doesn't try to make you feel like shit in the process.

Oh, and by the way, your last comment? "Those who take crap so terribly seriously can be weighed down by it and let it rule them, I dont."? Honey, I don't let my infertility "rule" me. I'm not "weighted down by it". I take it seriously because it's a DISEASE, you fuckwit. A DISEASE that, if untreated, will lead me to be CHILDLESS. Why wouldn't I take that seriously? Wouldn't you? Or are you so laid back that nothing bothers you? Or is that a defensive mechanism? You obviously don't let ANYTHING rule you, tact and common courtesy included.

Incidentally, that last line is also gramatically incorrect. A fractured
sentence, to be precise-just remember: Subject + Verb = Complete
Thought. Which yours obviously was not-it was neither complete, nor
though-out. Make that your homework, before you troll someone else's blog.

Just stay off of my blog. I don't need your assvice and shitty attitude-I am proud to be a Barren Bitch, part of a community that is strong, supportive and welcoming. I don't need your ignorance and your judgemental attitude. And I certainly don't need the stress right now.

And, if you don't like it, you can go fuck yourself.

Good luck with therapy, sweetie-it's obvious you desperately need it.


StellaNova said...

Delurking to say woo hoo!!
Remind me never to cross you!
And well done.

S said...

Thanks, Stellanova! Good to hear from you!

Remember-NEVER screw with a Jersey girl.....NEVER.


toastnjam said...

That was fantastic!
(Everything I ever wished I could say, but never had the balls.)
Some people are complete morons.

This is one of my favorite places to lurk, I am rooting for you!

Manuela said...

Yes! Yes! Yes! You GO SISTER!!!

I just DARE this freaking woman to show up on one of our blogs... she Will. not. know. what. hit. her.

Hoping said...

well said. consider her bitch i mean webslapped.

Erin said...

Also delurking and cheering you on every step of the way! I was going to go over to her blog and blast her, but then I decided that might make her feel more important than she actually is.

Shelli said...

You GO girl, I'm SO proud of you.

Love you,

And L, if you are reading, I'm a Jewish Lesbian who is a survivor of bulemia - and girlfriend, get a life - you have NO right to post to anyone in infertile land.

Jessica said...

Holy Crap I missed a lot. I am amazed at the shit this lady spoke. What nerve. What on EARTH does her mom taking 10 years to conceive her have to do with knowing what it's like?
This person obviously knows NOTHING about infertility - true infertility. If only relaxation and eating properly was the key- we'd all be knocked up from the start (back in la-la land when we first started the damn journey we all were a lot more relaxed, happier and probably ate better because the depression didn't set in yet).
The fact that she even called herself getting pregnant a MISTAKE instead of a MIRACLE should prove that she doesn't know a THING about what infertility feels like.
ARGH she makes me mad!
I hope she stays away from your blog (and all of ours too)

Jessica said...

ACK! I'm sorry but I just read this and I'm now fuming...

"I hope very much you get the children you desperately
want.They will just be glad you are their mother and not be bothered
that they were not "naturally" conceived."

I better go to bed and rant and rave to my husband... This is just absurd.

S said...

Just horrific, isn't it?

Now, normally I'd be pissed, but the Lupron is just making me absolutely insane...and I can't help but give her a bitchslap (or many)....

OMG, I can't believe I'm going to even post this, but.....

what a CUNT she is!


seattlegal said...

Not sure if I've commented before or not, but I just wanted to say - good for you! I cannot believe someone would make that comment on an infertility blog!

Miracles & Dreams said...


I just came across your blog and well you said it all. It always ticked me off when people would say that to me too... with 5yrs infertilty and 5 losses including a 19week loss, DO NOT tell me that it was not meant to be, was not in G*ds plan... my response was Why are you able to carry a baby and if you know gods plan PLEASE tell me about it all!

Even now I finally have my miracle boy, we still have infertility issues as we try for #2.


Isabel said...

You are a super star! My hero!

audrey said...

Her ma must be really cheesed off that she waited ten years to have a complete ignoramus for a child.

By the sounds of her posts and her comments on other people's sites, she is extremely judgemental and one of those perpetual criers of 'but MY life is hell and I have SO many problems!'

She went to a woman's site who practises Loving Domestic Discipline and basically told her she was allowing herself to be abused and she was 'really worried about her'. Now, I'd never heard of LDD until last night. It doesn't sound like my cup of tea but i am interested in the motivation behind it and this woman clearly didn't sound coerced. Rather than lambasting her, l might have asked her what attracts her to the lifestyle. But oh! That would t-o-l-e-r-a-n-t.

I haven't engaged in a blogspat with anyone before but she's a total mentalist.

Anonymous said...

GOOD FOR YOU! You took the words right out of my mouth!
What I wouldn’t do to have the guts to say the same to a whole lot of people in my world. Why is it people like that just don't get it? Is it that they are just SO insensitive in general? I’m sure before I experienced all this shit, I’d have been somewhat understanding, at least make an effort to be understanding, tactful, certainly.
I'd bet if she'd gone thorough more than just being told she “couldn't have children”, she'd take life's crap more seriously and I'd certainly like to see her not "be weighed down", with it all. There are very few people who are really that strong in character...

Take care and ignore the cow from now on, you don't need this shit...

Kind regards.


Meg said...

S - Rah to you!!! You go girl!

...And you know what... it's great to have a focus for all my current progestrone shittiness. (Can't believe I missed so much action in just a couple of days!!)

Shazz said...

Well said!!!

away2me said...

New reader, here via Manuela. First off you are a mom not a (yet to be). Secondly I won't go to her blog and read her post, she doesn't deserve my time.

I was once told that, "God didn't want me to be a mom". That is why I couldn't get pregnant. People can be morons and even morons can be hurtful. Good luck with your conception journey. I took the Adoption exit. I'm loving mommyhood but I will forever mourn infertility.

Anonymous said...

*thunderous applause*

-empathic lurker

Anonymous said...

I TOTALLY agree with you, S! What an ignorant moron she is.

--another lurker

Barely Sane said...

Another lurker who just wanted to say FUCK YEAH!! Very well said. Some people are just toooooo stupid.

Best of luck on your journey and hopefully that nasty troll stays away.


Inglewood said...

Delurking to commend you on the best ass-kicking infertility rant I have ever read! May just send the link to my in-laws.

Manuela said...

Just had to come back again to let you know how damn PROUD I am of you!

(clapping madly)

Anonymous said...


Lurker here and an infertile( and 28wks pg) ...WAY TO GO!!! She is nothing but a cow.
I'm wishing you the best of luck!!!


Anonymous said...

thank you for saying what most of us WISH we could when confronted with an ignorant comment like that.

- another infertile lurker

Lut C. said...

Boy did that women pick the wrong crowd to mess with.

Remind me not to piss you off. :-S

ms. c said...

(I just commented on the previous post, but now find myself here with more to say!)
I'm with everyone here-BRAVO. I believe that your bitchy post was even more beautifully written and clear than the polite response! Thank you for taking this stupid woman head on. You are wonderful for doing so.

Watson said...

Well said Jersey Girl, WELL SAID!

I am still shocked when insensitive and misguided people throw around the 'just relax and it will happen' comment and offer other assvice to us truly perplexes me.

Perhaps her agenda was to annoy/get a rise out of you, and when that (rightly) happened, she grew defensive. Who knows? Who cares?

You spoke for many of us, who hear these horrible comments but don't always have the forum in which to respond.

So thank you :-)

Betty said...

What an amazing lack of respect this L person has for other people's feelings and experiences.Relax indeed, sheesh she must think we are all stupid. If most of us were still busy relaxing we still would not be pregnant, with all the low sperm counts and various uterus issues out there. We are all determined women (and men) focussing on achieving the thing we want most in (for many) the only way we can.

Nickie said...

ouch. well stated and very well thought out. all hail to the Lupron queen!

My Reality said...

So very well said.

Although I just found your blog, I am proud to be part of the same community - the infertile blogosphere.

Heather said...

Excellent Post! I just came across your blog.

Well said!

linda said...

Well done!

You said it so damned well.

vixanne wigg said...

Oh my! I had to laugh with your post (with, not at). I just don't get why someone would post with "advice" that is really just a veiled insult.

BTW, you can call me gooey and find me annoying all you want. I am pretty annoying, although I don't think having a kid made me much more annoying than I already was.

dawnatello said...

hear hearmz

Twisted Ovaries said...

OK, I am a vegetarian. I eat mostly organic foods. I see a nice therapist who straightens out my ego and I have massages to straight out my id. I do yoga (did, actually, since IF treatment =bloating and bloating=not fun in yoga). I do drink occasionally and I stopped drinking coffee. I don't smoke.

And you know what? I'm on round 4 of IVF. ROUND 4. I AM relaxed, I am free from meat byproducts, and you know what I am NOT? I am not a mother. So for those who like to come in and shit all over the place with words like "relax" and "eat organically", and "que sera sera", please come over here and I will bitchslap you with my last negative home pregnancy test. Your advice to infertiles, unless you are one, is generally crap.

If my current cycle fails I am so subsisting on a diet of HoHos and Doritos, as god knows there must be something to it then, right?

Well said, S.

That is all.

KIMMER said...

WOHOO, ROCK ON MY FRIEND! Very well said...

FrogLegs said...

YAY!!! LOVE. the post. I want to link it to all teh stupid people who... just don't get it and never will either.

Beth said...

Let me count the ways I love you...

Denise said...

I'm still wondering how one "falls pregnant". I've got three kids and I don't remember falling. Idiot.

Really...I hate people like this. People who say they are being helpful, but really they are being jerks and they know it.

Mimi said...

Well said. My experiences with IVF and infertility are so hard to put into words because my emotions are so raw. You managed to do what I was unable to do. I hope she reads your post, gains some insight and then keeps her mouth shut. I can't wait to read the rest of your posts!

Babyblue said...

Go girl!!! Very well said.

I love your blog.